Bug in PB Chart

[paralleltrader]

Over the past week, I have noticed that the Point Break Chart has not been updating properly. I thought it was just my system until I logged in 3 different computers with three different user codes and received three different readings. All systems are WinXP Pro, 2.2 or higher processor, 512 or higher ram, and all connected to a full T-1 connection. Also used a CCI on all three, and again, three different readings. I was told that it may be a server issue and that it would be brought to the attention of Tech Support. Apparently no go.... Verified that all three had the same settings, time periods, prefs, etc. Contacted Tech support again.. ( only took them 24 hours to return my phone call) and they verified the same. There is indeed a bug in the PB charting. So...no confidence here in the readings thus cannot trade using this software. That is most unfortunate for myself and the hundreds of users that I have recommended to e-Signal.

When will a patch be ready for this problem or do we have to wait until this gets fixed via the next release version? I was told that most likely we would have to wait for the next version since there was no patch available. But then again, I was also told that Tech Support was not even aware of the problem.

Patiently waiting.. ( but not for much longer).

[JayF]

For this type of fix, we'll likely need to wait for a full release. As you may have already heard, our next release should be in Sept/Oct with a beta a few weeks prior. As I'm not directly involved with the development cycle, I'm unsure if we can get this fix in the next release... hopefully, we can.

[paralleltrader]

3 PB bug

It has been a considerable amount of time since my last post. I have spoken with tech support, and my account rep. many times without any satisfaction.

Here is the issue: 3 Point Break charting and often standard charting is giving false and incomplete data. Highs and lows are not being posted at times; the quote grid will show the highs and lows, but not painting the charts properly.

PPB, Renko, etc. are not showing proper highs and low, and many times are off by as much as 2.25 points.

I have been told that esignal is aware of the issue, but is having difficulty identifying the exact cause of the problem. It's even been confirmed on this board that esignal is aware of the issue.

So.. where is an email to the consumers making everyone aware of this issue? I have been told that this issue was presented to the VP of the firm and that he had sent an email to the CEO regarding this issue and that I would receive a phone call from him regarding this issue and how it would be addressed. Geez, I would have thought that this issue would have at least warranted getting up out of the chair and walking into the other room to discuss with the CEO how serious and important an issue there is and warrants some attention. The charting issues has caused me to lose more than $4.500. This may not seem like a lot to some, but is to others. $4500 is $4500. Period. A loss due to software issues is a loss. Period. How is this going to be made up? In the beginning it was thought that I was crazy about this issue, until I documented with screen captures and verfications. 10 machines can be set up with identical chart settings and most would not match. I was told that there was a problem with a bank of servers. Has this been fixed?

I was told that I would receive a phone call from the CEO about this issue. Hmmm. No call yet.. It's not like I have anything better to do than wait around for a phone call, but in business, a " Rep's word" should be bond. If I am told I will get a phone call, I should get a phone call. This is a serious issue that has the potential to impact every esignal client. At times even the regular charts do not reflect proper quotes. I can look past that due to possible issues with the cme, etc. But not with clear software issues. I can log off a server, log back in and get a totally different chart formation. This is a fully documented issue. I get calls from my associates, referred and clients continuously wanting to know what is being done about this issue. I can only tell them the same statement repeatedly. No updates yet. I/we have been extremely patient on this issue. Where is the patch? Waiting for an update is rediculous. This is an issue that affects subscribers now, and should be fixed now;.. Not in a two month future update. Starting to sound like Microsoft.

Don't get me wrong.. I like esignal program.. Great features, tools etc.. But when the data itself is incorrect or rather the data as presented is incorrect, it is very difficult to continue to recommend software that I have lost confidence in. I feel a moral and ethical obligation to alert the many customers I have referred to esignal regarding this issue. This has definately strained a good relationship and is not the way I like to do business and is definately not the way I believe business should be conducted.

To esignal tech support: Let your reps know what you are doing. My rep brought this to tech support and was basically brushed off until I made the wheel more squeaky. Infact, my rep did not know what was happening until too late. So Tech support: communicate with your back office and front line of support and growth. The reps do a great job and need your support.

What do I say to the several hundred subscribers that I am in contact with? What do I say to some of the larger well know services that I personally know and whom use esignal which represent several thousand clients? More importantly, what do I say to the hundreds of referrals I am in a position to influence.

Is this issue going to be fixed and soon or are we subject to losing more money due to confirmed and documented false chart formations? Until I am shown that the problem is fixed, how is software confidence to be brought back? I would prefer not to move to another software provider, but it is becoming apparent that I may not have a choice. How many others have lost money due to this issue?

So while I may not ever receive a phone call ( at this point, it's a mute point, you know.. broken promises and all that stuff), and most likely will not be reimbursed for the loss, I strongly hope that esignal will get this issue fixed ASAP.

Reps, keep up the good work.. Tech support.. you also.

[JayF]

Bill,

Thank you for your post.

Perhaps, you haven't received my message from yesterday afternoon, so I'd like to summarize part of the problem. Essentially, the cause of the High/Low discrepancies you pointed out is due to the way a/c/e data (CBOT Electronic Trading) is disseminated from the exchange. Essentially, the a/c/e system will sometimes "net" together multiple trades into one price, and sometimes missing the low or high of the day. The good news is that a/c/e will be switching systems in November to eliminate this problem.

More information on this can be found at this article.

http://www.optioninvestor.com/futurescorner/fc_052703_01.asp

We have received your emails on the Point Break discrepancies and are reviewing them with our Product Development Team. We expect to have more information to post on this issue before the week is out.

[paralleltrader]

Re: A/C/E

OK.. that may explain the issue regarding YM, ZB ( 30 T Bond), and ZN ( 10 Year Notes).. all of which I trade, but does not explain ES & NQ. By the way, has this issue regarding the a/c/e price desimination been challenged? The article makes a good point - how can the actual trades be determined? What right does the exchange have to "net" the trades? ( Not asking for legal opinion.. Just making a comment and personal/professional observation).

Seems like it is a practice that can be greatly challenged in court. Whether they make the change in November or not, does not excuse the fact that the exchange knew this was happening and has definately been an issue which has caused traders to lose a lot of money.

What the article does not reflect or account for is the fact that there are definate bugs in the 3 PB charting. For me to set up 10 machines and not have identical chart formations because they have logged on to different servers is a big issue in my book.

Thanks for the info about A/C/E

Bill.

[eSignal_Todd]

We have been looking at print screens and other information reported and I don't have an answer for everything yet, but I did want to point out something about the Highs and Lows not displaying.

PB, Renko, Kagi, and PnF charts are all based of some source field. By default, this is Close, but you can base the chart off of Open, High, Low, Close, or a combination such as (High + Low)/2. If you base the chart off close as an example, the high or low for the day might never show up on the chart because it may not have happened at the end of an interval.

As an example XYZ symbol had the following activity in a 5 minute chart:

Bar O H L C
1 100 102 98 101
2 101 103 101 102
3 102 106 101 103
4 103 105 102 104

Using the data above and a PB chart based on Close, the highest point on the chart would be 104 even though the symbol reached 106 and the lowest point would be 101 even though the symbol reached 98. This chart would have 4 up bars.

Using the data above and a PB chart based on Open would also give you 4 up bars, but its highest point would be 103 and lowest point would be 100.

Basing it on High would get you the 106 high, but would give you a low of 102 and only 3 up bars because the last period went back down, but not far enough to create a down bar.

Even though the chart displays in bars, the open of the bar is the price that the last bar closed at and the close of the bar is the price that the symbol closed at this period. If you look in the cursor window, an up bar will have the open and low as the same price and the high and close as the same price. On a down bar, the open and the high are the same price and the low and close are the same price. The bar does not have anything to do with the OHLC of the period for the symbol.

I hope this helps a little and doesn't make the issues more muddied.

Thank you,

[wbdavis]

3 Line Beak Chart

I have also had definite issues with the 3LB chart using close only as the parameter on a 1 min chart, which is without a doubt an eSignal data issue.

I am in a chat room with twenty other traders who are using this eSignal chart from different parts of the country and we are constantly seeing different chart structures. Refreshing the chart will sometimes change the chart completely, and other times no matter how many times we refresh, we will be off.

It seems as if the different eSignal data servers are not time synced across the country, because we have posted the Adv Chts (1min) of the underlying security (ES or NQ in this case) and can see that we have different OHLC for the 1 min bars.

This issue is an eSignal data sync issue between the different servers used to supply the streaming data. Different eSignal users across the country should not have charts that differ depending upon which data server they are logged onto.

[gspiker]

Hi,

I am in a chat room with twenty other traders who are using this eSignal chart from different parts of the country and we are constantly seeing different chart structures.

A question on this, have you all verified that you are using the same (or same except WRT the obvious need for a different time offset to account for different time zones) time template?

If some of you are using starting times of say (this is all based on PST) 6:00 and others 6:15 and yet others 6:30, by its very nature intraday 3PB will (or at least could) look differen on each of these charts.

Garth

[paralleltrader]

" A question on this, have you all verified that you are using the same (or same except WRT the obvious need for a different time offset to account for different time zones) time template?

If some of you are using starting times of say (this is all based on PST) 6:00 and others 6:15 and yet others 6:30, by its very nature intraday 3PB will (or at least could) look differen on each of these charts.

Garth"


Garth,

I appreciate your bringing this to our attention. However, I am very adept at how to compare settings on multiple machines and to make sure all are set appropriately and correctly. This is as stated and seems to be getting more reinforced. The servers are not in sync. I can log in on just one machine. I can then log off that one machine and relog back on and get a totally different chart setup. It all depends on which server I log on to as to what data I receive and how it appears on my chart. We have also learned that part of the issue is with a/c/e quotes, although that does not explain why the proper quote would appear in the quote grid, but not appear on the charts. So there are still definate issues to be addressed. However, Thank you for your concern.

Bill.

[ACM]

Bill

...that does not explain why the proper quote would appear in the quote grid, but not appear on the charts

I am not sure what you mean by "quote grid" but if you are referring to the Quote Window (or the Daily Snapshot) then that happens because during the trading session Eurex sends out summary messages that inform the data providers that a new High or Low has been set. eSignal uses these summary messages to adjust the daily values but since they are not tagged as trade messages they do not appear in the charts or in T&S hence the discrepancy.

Alex

[ScottJ]

Re: Re: A/C/E

In regards to this issue:

I'm comparing eSignal on two different computers and I'm noticing slight differences in 1 minute candlesticks. What would account for these differences?

We do have some good news to report. Due to several networking projects over the past few months, we are now in a position to synchronize all of our tick servers to a single network time-stamp. This will dramatically improve the consistency of the bar building across our servers. The work is expected to be completed by the end of October.

For more information, please review the FAQ we have on this issue.

Thanks.

[paralleltrader]

3PointBreak issues and beyond ....

Well it seems that this issue is simply not going to be resolved and that the continuing saga of false data and false information is not going to change. I was really hoping that this issue would be resolved satisfactorily, but management does not seem to want to fix this issue. Over the many months we have been constantly told that this issue would be fixed. It simply has not been. Here it is now, November, and still no change.

I was hoping that our relationship would hold up. I was even hoping that management would offer some type of consideration to the account for all of the issues that we have been through with this software. But it does not look like management has any interest in saving my account or any of the referred accounts, or futures business.

As stated in previous postings, this software gives false data and has cost me ( and I can only assume many other traders) lots of money. I tried to stick it out with esignal because, frankly, it does have some positive characteristics not found in other software. But it's at the point that the positive characteristics can no longer out-weigh the negatives. I can not continue overlooking these bad data issues. Example.. bad pricing that gets constantly re-adjusted during the day; I saw 1 day how the 30 Tbond was up 340 points. Yes 340.00 points. We are still often getting incorrect Lows and Highs of futures contracts; servers still not in synch ( Log off and back on and still get different formations and data readings.) How in the heck can confidence be established and maintained, much less put in a trade and place stops with reliable pricing structures?!

I get phone calls from management who tried to explain to me that they were looking into the issue. How far have you looked? The problem still exists. Why bother to call me if you are not serious about solving the problems. Oh, but as long as you get the monthly fees you can drag this out hoping that eventually I/we will go away or at least get quiet about this issue. I do not believe management understands how serious of an issue this is.

I get asked today by my rep ( I assume he just passed this on from upper management), If I was so dissatisfied with the software and it caused so many problems, why continue the service? HEY, IT'S CALLED FAITH. You TOLD us that you would get the problems fixed, to hang in there; that you valued our business and the business of the many customers and clients I referred to you. When this problem was first brought to your attention you obviously at first were not sure what the problems were. When it was finally pointed out to you what the problem was, you would think the issue would be moved on right away,.. NOT 4 MONTHS AND MANY THOUSANDS LATER. I have clients right now asking what is going on; Do they continue, or do we move. I also have more clients who are looking for software. What would have happened if we had not brought this issue to the forefront? It's pretty sad when I am trying to teach a client something or show an example of something or how to do some type of technical analysis and the software I am using gives incorrect data.

I think that the real mistake that was made, was that I trusted you, esignal, to provide a product that could be depended upon. That was my first mistake. The second mistake was trusting your statements. I will not do this again.

I will not be renewing this account. Esignal you have cost us too much money and have breached our faith and confidence as a consumer.

I personally will be escolating this issue to a higher regard.


Good luck to those who remain..