Migrating LIvecharts to LivechartsPlus and charging more?

[Jessel]

I just got the letter saying that you all are eliminating livecharts at 9.95, and migrating all those customers to livechart plus and the price goes up (19.95?).

In looking at livecharts plus, the only real thing you get additionally is ability to track a portfolio, and streaming news. I guess you can also add forex if you want to pay the forex fees which are ?

Guys, anyone who has any kind of a decent trading platform already has streaming news and portfolio capability.

This does seem like a puzzling decision on your part (well, unless you just view it as a price increase). Am I missing something?

[Jessel]

Well, at least now that we will be paying more it doesn't matter because the system is down (again).

Just love trading in the blind in a volatile market.

Thanks once again.

[JayF]

Jessel,

There are numerous benefits from the new LiveCharts beyond the ones you already mentioned.

- Data comes from the eSignal data network that is more stable, reliable and provides data direct from the exchanges. There are literally hundreds of more servers in multiple redundant sites.

- A new more robust charting applet with more studies, indicators and line tools, and the ability to look back farther in time by compressing bars.

- A slick new interface that provides much more flexibility in customizing your setup, and saving your default preferences.

- If you're a NASDAQ trader, Level II will be available. If your an options trader, a customizable options chain is a great addition as well.

Regarding pricing, keep in mind that you won't be paying more for nearly 6 months. That's our chance to prove to you that LiveCharts is, and will continue to be, a great choice for your trading and investing needs.

[Jessel]

thanks for the reply jayf

I'll keep an open mind and see what it looks like.

[freestyle]

you removed many of the features of the old version that i absolutely need. you added only things that i do not need - what should i do now??


i (many of us) NEED:

1.
a chart window that can be customized in its size so that for example i can view the WHOLE trading session on a 1 minute chart - that means i have to display a charts width of about 2000 (or even more)!! with the new version - the width of the chart is limited to the width of my screen - no matter if i enter 1000 or 2000 or whatever else.

many traders need this for their homework studies after market close. and i want to have the scroll bar restored for charts that go beyond the width of the screen (this has been messed up last december - don't know why...).

2.
i have to get back the feature of filtering time and sales (t&s, bid, ask) - to only get time and sales.

3.
i need to get back the possibility to have open more than just one livecharts window at the same time.

4.
i need to set the clock to NY time (all the time for any market).

5.
i want to have the data available for regular trading hours / overnight trading (cme minis for example) with ONE click (the new nonsense with several different symbols for ONE market is ridiculous) - and the button "all sessions" does not work!!

6.
even the login into the new version is cumbersome - with the old one i get a new window with on single click - with the new one i still haven't understood how i can simply get out and in again - without getting a popup that tells me my session is expired, or something like this.

7.
it is no longer possible to diyplay a quarterly chart - another pain in the ass.

8.
it is annoying that there is a new symbols scheme (ES H8 instead of ESH8 for example) - WHY???

9.
it has become cumbersome to switch between different time intervals.

10.
with the old version i have all other markets available - delayed (i am subscribed to cme e-minis only) - with the new version - NOT!!


this "new product" is a big joke. this is so absolutely unbelievable that i hardly can find the proper words for it.

you come up with a new product that should be better - when in reality you removed more or less all the things that were good and necessary - AND you want more money for it.

i personally don't even need all the indicators the old version for $ 9.95 offers. so i do NOT see ANY reason why i should pay MORE for a product that offers none of the things i liked and NEED and a lot of new things that I DO NOT NEED!!!

livecharts (the old version) is a great, simple, flexible, easy to use and cheap product with many good ideas in it. the new version is NOT. more or less all the good things of the old version are GONE in the new one.

it would have been a great thing if the old version simply would have been combined with a better, more stable direct datafeed - no further changes or "features" would have been necessary - NONE!! i would pay a little bit more if stability of applet and datafeed were better.

*************************************************
i've been a livecharts-user since the year 2000, but should you not add the above features and remove those bugs (or keep the "old" version available) - you will lose a (many?) long term customer(s) - it's up to you what is going to happen.
*************************************************

[JayF]

freestyle,

Thanks for your post. I'm certain there are other LiveCharts users that share similar views to what you are posting. My reply is not only to you, but also to them as well.

1.a chart window that can be customized in its size so that for example i can view the WHOLE trading session on a 1 minute chart - that means i have to display a charts width of about 2000 (or even more)…

This feature exists already, but is being overlooked. Just click and drag your mouse along the X-axis (in the time label area) to adjust the spacing between the bars.

2.i have to get back the feature of filtering time and sales (t&s, bid, ask) - to only get time and sales.

We have added this to our list of possible enhancements to LiveCharts.

3.i need to get back the possibility to have open more than just one livecharts window at the same time.

This was actually not an intended feature of the original LiveCharts. In fact, Quote.com had looked at limiting this "feature" back in the early 2000's to lower the impact that LiveCharts had on the Continuum server, however those limits weren't ever implemented for other reasons.

When redesigning the new LiveCharts, we looked at our many competitors at this price point and also our other product offerings. We decided to go with a broad set of features that many investors and traders would enjoy using such as portfolio tracking, an advanced chart, news, option chains, market depth, etc. In addition, a more stable infrastructure and international data was brought to LiveCharts with the addition of the eSignal network.

Going forward, we are looking into the possibility of adding a service to allow multiple charts, but the exact details on this have not yet been determined.

4.i need to set the clock to NY time (all the time for any market).

In the new version, there are three time settings. To adjust this, just right-click on the LiveCharts clock.

Local: This is the default setting. It uses the time zone setting on your own PC clock.

Exchange: This uses the time zone for the active symbol. If IBM is active, then EST is used; if ES H8 is active, then Central Time is used.

GMT: All times are forced to GMT.

5.i want to have the data available for regular trading hours / overnight trading (cme minis for example) with ONE click (the new nonsense with several different symbols for ONE market is ridiculous) - and the button "all sessions" does not work!!

Technically speaking the official hours for the CME E-Mini’s is one session from 15:30 – 15:15 CST (with a 30 min. break at 16:30). The All Sessions button is performing as expected of it, and the session hours are matching the CME’s product specification.

That being said, some traders desire the separation of the data between when the cash spot is being actively updated and when its not. Because of this, the eSignal network has additional symbols for many popular futures symbols. For example,

ES H8=2 (RTH “Session”)
ES H8=1 (Night “Session”)
ES #F (Continuation Symbol)

While this may be a change for some, many will agree that they are better as the daily charts are aligned with the desired session.

6.even the login into the new version is cumbersome - with the old one i get a new window with on single click - with the new one i still haven't understood how i can simply get out and in again - without getting a popup that tells me my session is expired, or something like this.

To log into the new LiveCharts, go to either Quote.com or LiveCharts.com and click on Login. Once logged in click on the LiveCharts link in the upper right-hand corner to launch the LiveCharts applet. If the window does not pop-up, you likely have a pop-up blocker preventing this from occurring. There will be a link displayed to launch the applet if a pop-up blocker is detected.

To log out of LiveCharts, simply close the LiveCharts window. This also has the added advantage of saving your session, so that the next time you come back to LiveCharts it appears the same way you left it.

To relaunch LiveCharts, just click on the main LiveCharts link again in the upper right of Quote.com. Please note that the link to bypass the pop-up blockers is temporary and will expire. If this occurs, a message is given, and the main LiveCharts link should be used to launch LiveCharts. This is a security measure designed to protect unauthorized usage.

7.it is no longer possible to diyplay a quarterly chart - another pain…

This is true, however using a Monthly interval with the bar compression mentioned earlier should be similar in performance.

8.it is annoying that there is a new symbols scheme (ES H8 instead of ESH8 for example) - WHY???

This is because we are using the eSignal network, which has a different symbology than the older data network. While there is a learning curve, we have a nicely laid out symbols guide at the following link to help.

http://www.esignalcentral.com/support/symbol/default.asp

9.it has become cumbersome to switch between different time intervals.

I’m not sure I follow. Could you clarify how this has become more cumbersome?

10.with the old version i have all other markets available - delayed (i am subscribed to cme e-minis only) - with the new version - NOT!!

Actually this was an error on the old version that was only recently discovered. We announced a change in October, 2006 that removed delayed data from the LiveCharts product and added optional service bundles to allow this data to continue. The Delayed U.S. Futures Bundle is only $2.00/month and the Delayed U.S. Stocks Bundle is actually priced at $0.00. It just needs to be added to your account to get this data.

Also, just a quick note that, I'm moving over to focus on our desktop products (namely QCharts and eSignal,) so there will be another Product Manager taking over the LiveCharts product going forward. Just an FYI as you'll see a new face around here soon.

I hope the above information helps explain some of the reasons for heading in the direction we did. Also, please know that we're not done with LiveCharts! eSignal has been in the subscription business for more than 20 years, and we recognize that to succeed in this field, you need to stay in tune with your subscriber-base and reinvest the profits back into the business to foster its growth.

[freestyle]

Originally posted by JayF
freestyle,

Thanks for your post. I'm certain there are other LiveCharts users that share similar views to what you are posting. My reply is not only to you, but also to them as well.



This feature exists already, but is being overlooked. Just click and drag your mouse along the X-axis (in the time label area) to adjust the spacing between the bars.



We have added this to our list of possible enhancements to LiveCharts.



This was actually not an intended feature of the original LiveCharts. In fact, Quote.com had looked at limiting this "feature" back in the early 2000's to lower the impact that LiveCharts had on the Continuum server, however those limits weren't ever implemented for other reasons.

When redesigning the new LiveCharts, we looked at our many competitors at this price point and also our other product offerings. We decided to go with a broad set of features that many investors and traders would enjoy using such as portfolio tracking, an advanced chart, news, option chains, market depth, etc. In addition, a more stable infrastructure and international data was brought to LiveCharts with the addition of the eSignal network.

Going forward, we are looking into the possibility of adding a service to allow multiple charts, but the exact details on this have not yet been determined.



In the new version, there are three time settings. To adjust this, just right-click on the LiveCharts clock.

Local: This is the default setting. It uses the time zone setting on your own PC clock.

Exchange: This uses the time zone for the active symbol. If IBM is active, then EST is used; if ES H8 is active, then Central Time is used.

GMT: All times are forced to GMT.



Technically speaking the official hours for the CME E-Mini’s is one session from 15:30 – 15:15 CST (with a 30 min. break at 16:30). The All Sessions button is performing as expected of it, and the session hours are matching the CME’s product specification.

That being said, some traders desire the separation of the data between when the cash spot is being actively updated and when its not. Because of this, the eSignal network has additional symbols for many popular futures symbols. For example,

ES H8=2 (RTH “Session”)
ES H8=1 (Night “Session”)
ES #F (Continuation Symbol)

While this may be a change for some, many will agree that they are better as the daily charts are aligned with the desired session.



To log into the new LiveCharts, go to either Quote.com or LiveCharts.com and click on Login. Once logged in click on the LiveCharts link in the upper right-hand corner to launch the LiveCharts applet. If the window does not pop-up, you likely have a pop-up blocker preventing this from occurring. There will be a link displayed to launch the applet if a pop-up blocker is detected.

To log out of LiveCharts, simply close the LiveCharts window. This also has the added advantage of saving your session, so that the next time you come back to LiveCharts it appears the same way you left it.

To relaunch LiveCharts, just click on the main LiveCharts link again in the upper right of Quote.com. Please note that the link to bypass the pop-up blockers is temporary and will expire. If this occurs, a message is given, and the main LiveCharts link should be used to launch LiveCharts. This is a security measure designed to protect unauthorized usage.



This is true, however using a Monthly interval with the bar compression mentioned earlier should be similar in performance.



This is because we are using the eSignal network, which has a different symbology than the older data network. While there is a learning curve, we have a nicely laid out symbols guide at the following link to help.

http://www.esignalcentral.com/support/symbol/default.asp

I’m not sure I follow. Could you clarify how this has become more cumbersome?



Actually this was an error on the old version that was only recently discovered. We announced a change in October, 2006 that removed delayed data from the LiveCharts product and added optional service bundles to allow this data to continue. The Delayed U.S. Futures Bundle is only $2.00/month and the Delayed U.S. Stocks Bundle is actually priced at $0.00. It just needs to be added to your account to get this data.

Also, just a quick note that, I'm moving over to focus on our desktop products (namely QCharts and eSignal,) so there will be another Product Manager taking over the LiveCharts product going forward. Just an FYI as you'll see a new face around here soon.

I hope the above information helps explain some of the reasons for heading in the direction we did. Also, please know that we're not done with LiveCharts! eSignal has been in the subscription business for more than 20 years, and we recognize that to succeed in this field, you need to stay in tune with your subscriber-base and reinvest the profits back into the business to foster its growth.

1. chart size:

you obviously don't understand: i want it the way it was before (no adjusting of spyce between bars - this is nonsense) - i want to be able to enter a WIDTH OF - SAY 2000 - to view the ENTIRE session on a 1.min chart - so that i get a horizontal SCROLL BAR that makes this possible - this was removed last december - and i don't know why.

2. filtering time and sales:

this is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

3. more than 1 session:

-- see no. 2.

4. you don't understand AGAIN:

i know the current options - but they are not enough - adding a 4th can't be such a problem. all us-trading refers to ny-time - so ...

5. again - that's not enough. cme equity minis rfer to the ny stock market - where regular trading is done from 9.30 - 16.00 ny-time. leave it just like it is NOW with the old version - it's great that way. why change - WHY??? why different symbols for the same market - absolutely weird!!

6. login - cumbersome - old version is better.

7. there is an "error" with delayed markets since 2006 and you only discovered that recently - what is going on over there?

so all in all - i don' understand what kind of people come up with such ideas - removing such a great product and replace it with something that is new but not better. nobody understands this.
do you want to satisfy and keep your customers - or not???

[freestyle]

just one more thing - i wrote:

"i personally don't even need all the indicators the old version for $ 9.95 offers. so i do NOT see ANY reason why i should pay MORE for a product that offers none of the things i liked and NEED and a lot of new things that I DO NOT NEED!!!

"

so - why should i pay more now if i have LESS of the things that i need?

9.95 was a good price for what i've been using - now you take away a lot of what i need and give me things that i do not need - and i should give you more money?

explain that to me. i am simpy not interested in those "great" ideas you put into the new version.

why not just keep the old version available (for 9.95)?

are you afraid that no one would use the new one? i think so...

[freestyle]

Originally posted by JayF
The All Sessions button is performing as expected of it, and the session hours are matching the CME’s product specification.

could you explain what this button is actually expected to do?

no matter which symbol - if i click "all sessions" - nothing happens - no change?

[wilky]

Jayf, I'm also having problems with the all sessions with the currenies at CME. With the old live charts, for the all sessions to work we had to use C instead of H for the march contract month. When you used the all sessions button with the symbol C we would get the 24 hr chart. Undo the all sessions button and we would get the same data but only during the day session time frame. Not the day session data, which is how I liked it. Is there any chance that using the symbol 6E H8 (euro) and the all sessions button to get both 24 and 7( 7:20-14:00cdt) hour charts?

The relationship between the 24 and 7 hour charts are vital to my trading. This is the reason that I stayed with LIve Charts when I started using Market Q(at the time it was FutureSource Xtra). I may be able to live with only one chart, but if I can't get the 24 and 7 hour chart problem fixed I will have to cancel both live charts and Market Q.

[JayF]

wilky,

I see your point... Especially with the currencies. ES H8=2 is a good way of handling the All Sessions, but this doesn't apply when using the 6E contract.

I'll see if we can come up with a workaround on this one. Can't guarantee a short-term fix, but we'll certainly investigate it.

[freestyle]

Originally posted by freestyle
could you explain what this button is actually expected to do?

no matter which symbol - if i click "all sessions" - nothing happens - no change?

any idea so far, Jay...?

[freestyle]

Originally posted by freestyle
1. chart size:

you obviously don't understand: i want it the way it was before (no adjusting of spyce between bars - this is nonsense) - i want to be able to enter a WIDTH OF - SAY 2000 - to view the ENTIRE session on a 1.min chart - so that i get a horizontal SCROLL BAR that makes this possible - this was removed last december - and i don't know why.

2. filtering time and sales:

this is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY.

3. more than 1 session:

-- see no. 2.

4. you don't understand AGAIN:

i know the current options - but they are not enough - adding a 4th can't be such a problem. all us-trading refers to ny-time - so ...

5. again - that's not enough. cme equity minis refer to the ny stock market - where regular trading is done from 9.30 - 16.00 ny-time. leave it just like it is NOW with the old version - it's great that way. why change - WHY??? why different symbols for the same market - absolutely weird!!

6. login - cumbersome - old version is better.

7. there is an "error" with delayed markets since 2006 and you only discovered that recently - what is going on over there?

so all in all - i don't understand what kind of people come up with such ideas - removing such a great product and replace it with something that is new but not better. nobody understands this.
do you want to satisfy and keep your customers - or not???

still waiting for (better) answers, Jay...

[wilky]

Thanks for looking into this Jay

[STOCKTRADER2420]

BRING BACK THE OLD LIVECHARTS

WE THE SUBSCRIBERS OF QUOTE.COM LIVECHARTS ARE COMPLETELY DISGUSTED WITH THE NEW CHARTS. YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR CHARTING SERVICE WITH THIS. READ YOUR FORUMS. MANY ARE ABOUT TO LEAVE YOUR SERVICE. FRANKLY WHEN THE LEGACY VERSION IS DONE AWAY WITH, I WILL BE PUT OUT OF BUSINESS BECAUSE THE NEW VERSION IS UNUSABLE TO ME. PLUS IT HAS NO SMOOTHING FILTER FOR MY MAIN INDICATOR THAT I USE, WILLIAMS %R. THE LEGACY VERSION DOES. WHY DONT YOU CONTINUE TO OFFER THE NEW LIVECHARTS TO THOSE WHO HAVE FOUND A USE FOR IT, AND CONTINUE TO ALSO OFFER THE LEGACY VERSION TO THOSE SUBSCRIBERS WHO HAVE BEEN WITH YOU FOR YEARS AND ONLY HAS USE FOR THE OLD STYLE. IT'S A WIN-WIN PROPOSAL. YOU SATISFY BOTH INTERESTS AT THE SAME TIME. IF YOU CAN OFFER THE LEGACY VERSION NOW, YOU CAN CAN CONTINUE TO OFFER IT. ITS NOT LIKE IT DOESNT WORK AND IT HAS TO BE ELIMINATED. OFFER BOTH SERVICES. I MYSELF AND I'M SURE MANY OTHER SUBSCRIBERS WOULD EVEN BE WILLING TO PAY MORE TO CONTINUE TO USE THE LEGACY VERSION. I WILL SAY HOWEVER IF THE COMPANY IS BENT ON CLOSING THIS SERVICE, I AS WELL AS MANY OTHER SUBSCRIBERS MAY BE FORCED TO PURSUE A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST THE COMPANY. THIS MOVE BY THE COMPANY WILL ESSENTIALLY PUT MANY OF YOUR SUBSCRIBERS OUT OF THE TRADING BUSINESS. PLEASE RECONSIDER YOUR STAND ON REMOVING THE LEGACY VERSION OF LIVECHARTS.