Which OS should I go with for QCharts?

[jmhuff-2]

I am going to upgrade my memory from 2Gigs to 6Gigs or 8Gigs. My standard Windows XP pro will not support that much memory. The only options I can think of is either XP Pro 64-bit or Vista 64-bit.

I have seen some discussion on quirks with windows vista and I don't know how XP 64-bit runs Qcharts. What would be the preferred OS to use for QCharts on a system with 4+ Gigs Ram?

I have a quad-core 3Ghz Intel system with GeForce 8600 video cards.

Thanks,
Matt

[JimRutherford]

Re: Which OS should I go with for QCharts?

Originally posted by jmhuff-2

I have seen some discussion on quirks with windows vista

Matt, I recently bought a laptop with Vista preloaded as my back up system in the event of an extended power failure or DSL outage. I have no problems running QC6 on Vista at all. I can't remember at the moment whether I installed build 1366 or 1379 but it runs quite well.

There is a thread here that speaks very well to the requirements for installing and running QCharts on Vista and there is additional information over on qcsoftwarehelp.com

I have no direct experience with XPx64. What I have been able to observe though is that sometimes even people with very similar systems will have a very different experience with QCharts operation. If you have the time and the software available you might want to try each for yourself.

Regards

Jim

[dcash]

Matt,

I went through this same issue about six months ago when I built a new PC. I was going to use Vista 64, but I ran into enough driver and application compatibility problems that I stuck with Windows XP Professional SP3.

One issue I ran into right away was that my Asus P5E motherboard had problems booting with 4 2GB memory modules in it. I also use a Kensington trackball that has no Vista drivers and no planned Vista support from Kensington.

My CPU is one of the new 45nm Quad Core units running at 2.66 GHz. I thought I would need to overclock to 3 GHz, but I have had absolutely no problems running any of the 6.03 betas, at least from a PC performance standpoint. QCharts does not seem optimized for using 4 CPUs but I still never average over 35-40% total CPU usage, averaged across all CPUs. This is with 6 or 7 charts up and two quote sheets with a total of around 325 symbols. I get no delays through market open and close, but there is quite a lot of data running at those times. Since the 6.0.3.xxxx versions don't throttle data like 5.0.1.21, I estimate that 325 symbols in use at market open uses around 3.5-4.5 megabit/sec. of bandwidth. My memory usage will run about 800 MB with this workspace, but I am using 4 GB of memory (Windows XP only sees 3.2 of this, by design).

One issue I ran into early on with 6.0.3.xxxx was file permissions. My best configuration turned out to be installing with the Administrator acccount and then manually setting permissions on the installation directory to allow full access by all user accounts. If I don't do this I have issues with charts not displaying and the application behaving badly.

The bottom line, IMHO, is you should put 4 GB of memory in a fast, multi-core CPU PC, install fast hard drives and run Windows XP Professional SP3. I am bypassing Vista and waiting to see what the new Windows 7 looks like.

-Dan

[jmhuff-2]

I loaded a copy of windows 7 in a vmware image a few days ago. The interface is different from xp but not such a huge jump like 3.11 to 95 was. Running this in vmware is a lot slower then XP, so it seems to require more memory like vista. Hopefully it will have more stability.

You are right, Jim every system does act differently. It sounds like me and Dan have very similar PC's but different QChart performance. I have a great machine, 8-Meg Road Runner, but qcharts 6.0.2 constantly freezes on me during market hours and its really unusable. The only thing I can possibly think of is to reformat this machine and maybe add more RAM. This is my trading machine so only I try to keep the installed apps to a minimum.

I think I will try out XP Pro 64-bit which supports 8-Gig RAM, and if all goes smooth I will order another 4-Gig Ram for ONLY $49.00 !!! I can't believe memory is so cheap now. If I have problems I will install XP Pro 32-bit with a total of 4-Gig Ram.

I didn't realize that I am pulling down about 3.5 - 4.5 megs/sec. I will do a few speed tests while qc6 is open tomorrow during market hours. If my download speed is crawling I will look at my network first, if not I will be planning for a reformat.


Thanks for your help and comments,
- Matt

[billbled]

Hey,
For what it's worth, here's what I run:
Motherboard: ASUS A8N32-SLI Deluxe
Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ DualCore processor (socket 939)
RAM: Corsair 2GB TwinX
Hard Drive: Seagate Barracuda 7200.9 – 320GB capacity (SATA 3.0GB drive)
Video Cards: (2) Matrox Low Profile Quad video cards Model: QID-E128-LPAF - Powers (8) 21" CRT monitors
Power Supply: Antec 550w TruePower 2.0
Operating System: Windows XP Professional 64-bit
and all the rest....keyboard, DVD drive, blah blah.

Yes, QCharts runs on a Win XP 64bit system. It installs QCharts in its 32bit emulation layer called WOW64 (Windows on Windows). Since QCharts is a 32bit app, it installs in WinXP 64bit's 32bit emulation layer (WOW64) just fine. It runs better (in my opinion) because it's running in a stronger environment (64bit) - even though it's still a 32 bit app.

My QCharts computer is primarily just that - for QCharts. So I'm not overly concerned about application compatibility. But here are some things of note for you 64bit'ers - you gotta pay attention to your AntiVirus. I ended up using Avast! 64bit edition. And your printer driver needs to be a 64bit printer driver. I run a Canon ip6000D and it has a 64bit driver so it's all good. I run MS Office 2003 Pro on it just fine. A LOT of stuff runs on the WOW64 emulator and does fine.

Anyway, I hope all of this helps.

Here are some links if you want to look:
Rocket section of qcsoftwarehelp
How I supported 8 monitors (If you want to create your own plywood and 2x4 nightmare....)
Wiki article - read the "Windows XP Professional x64 Edition" section

[Larry Marchman]

Hey Matt,

1.
My 2 cents here regarding adding more memory.
Are you sure you need more RAM (physical memory)? Are you sure that lack of RAM, hence driving programs into the Swap File on disk, is causing your QCharts problems?

After you boot your machine, before loading QCharts or any other Application programs, take a look at the system supplied Task Manager and note in the Performance tab how much physical memory is "Available", i.e. unused. While you're at it, take a look at the Processes tab to get familiar with what's loaded at boot, and the physical memory (Mem Usage column) allocated to the stuff you see there. Anything stand out as unreasonable, like a POS virus protection program gobbling up hundreds of megabytes? Any programs (applications and services) that are just unnecessary baggage and shouldn't be loaded at boot to begin with?

Then after loading QCharts, and other apps you deem necessary, during the market day with QCharts running, notice unused physical memory. Got plenty left over, unused? If so, adding additional RAM will only mean you will have even more unused physical memory. That's of no help whatsoever.

2.
%CPU.
What do you use to monitor your %CPU moment-to-moment, something that's always in view alerting you to your box being pegged at 100%. Are you really pegging at 100% a 3GHZ quad core box? If so, all ye abandon hope. How are you determining which apps are gobbling all the %CPU? Is it QCharts alone? Or some other rogue app contributing to the pegging? This can be known to an absolute certainty. If you have excess unused physical memory, more RAM will not help pegging.

3.
Streaming Data flow.
I don't have 'nuff horsepower in my box to run all that many symbols. So I can't say from experience the bits/sec a workspace with hundreds of syms will manifest at market open. Of course it will be far greater than at Noon when market trade rates are considerable less.

That being said, from what I've seen with what I can see, I seriously doubt your workspace is drawing 3Mbps. How much data flow one's individual workspace creates is a function of how many symbols are in the workspace. More syms, more data flow. There is a way to know, to a certainty, moment to moment, the data flow to and from your computer. I prefer DU Meter for accurate measurements. Although there are freebie programs out there to monitor traffic, I've seen some that don't give accurate results. I've validated DU Meter as accurate via my high end Packet Sniffer.(Google DU Meter, if interested).

A speed test won't tell you anything other than a calculation of how long it takes to download(and upload) a block of data from a server. A speed test should be run standalone, without any other apps running that are drawing data from the internet. The result is just a simple calculation of #bytes/time. It may, or may not, reflect the maximum allowed by your ISP. If you are in N.C., and use a speed test server in Wash DC, you will have a higher "result" than if you use a speed test server in San Francisco. This has to do with inherent latency over greater distances and number of machine in the path. Takes more time to transmit and acknowledge back the packets involved. A speed test has nothing to do with the moment to moment rate of data flow from eSignal data servers. The only value would be to know if you have the capacity to handle QCharts. You do, I'm sure. I like http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ .

4.
fwiw...
You're dealing with a "BETA" piece of software that's loaded with bugs. Some folks have more issues than others. Different folks stroke QCharts differently with their different workspaces. Tom had comments about how he's using QCharts in a reply in another thread, and seems to have less issues.

More memory(assuming excess physical available is the existing case), a 15Mbps RoadRunner turbo cable feed, or whatnot changes to your box won't fix those bugs. On a personal note, I've got to get another box with more horsepower just to compensate for the programming inefficiencies in 6.X, which by my definition is a huge bug. I just can't run 6.0 on my Intel P4 single core 2.4Ghz box, except with a relatively small bare bones workspace. A more complex and symbol laden workspace pegs my box at 100%, and you can't run QCharts in a pegged box. So yeah, this is one bug(programming inefficiencies leading to greater %CPU) that can be fixed by spending $$$ for a more powerful box.

OK. After all that blah, blah, blah, the bottom line is.... I betcha you're good to go as is with your OS and box. The bugs and your usage of 6.0 is most likely the issue.

LAM

[jmhuff-2]

Eight monitors !! You have me beat, I only have 5 at the moment. Thanks for the info on XP 64-bit. Its good to know qcharts is as stable on either 32-bit or 64-bit.

Quick Box Stats:
------------------
Intel Quad Core Q66600 Overclocked to a stable 3.01. Prime95 tested.
(2x1Gb) G.Skill PC2 6400 Ram
2x GeForce 8600 GT 256 PCI Express Dual DVI Cards
1x GeForce 6200 PCI DVI Card <-- Ran Out of PCI-Express Slots & not part of qcharts workspace
Windows XP Pro 32-bit
Full Stats: matt's newegg list


I am just using TaskManager for memory/cpu utilization. My memory usage is about 1Gig when I have multiple firefox windows open, outlook, some yahoo IM windows, and QCharts 6.0.2. My CPU utilization is showing 0% - 1%. When I close qcharts memory usage drops just by a bit. Its pre-open and when I change symbols I see the processor going up to 31% for a few seconds while its downloading the data but the memory stays the same. QCharts 6.0.2 is runs fast until market open. I have 298 symbols on my desktop.

I was planning on running a speed test since I have 6 other computers in the house sharing the time warner connection. If a download speed shows I am getting about 3-megs down from my 8-meg Road Runner connection that should tell me that I have about 3-megs/sec free bandwidth right?

The more posts I read, the more I agree that my pc should be able to handle this application with no problems. QCharts locks up for about 30+ seconds most of the time when I change symbols or increase a chart size during trading hours.


Anyways, what do you think about this game plan?

1) Verify internet connection (bandwidth/latency)
2) Test with PCI Video Card Removed
3) Test with non/oc'ed CPU
4) Load XP Pro (32-bit or 64-bit)
5) Go buy an OC3 and a Cray. (I will have a few Cray's one day)

Thanks,
Matt

[jmhuff-2]

Its 9:36.
CPU = 40% - 50% usage now
Mem = 1.5 GB used


QCharts 6.0.1 using 41% of CPU and 700Meg so far.

Ran speed test and got 6Megs download.

[jmhuff-2]

10:21 lockups very frequent when doing much of anything in qcharts. Just locked up scrolling.
locked up going to new --> quote sheet,
locked up trying to add symbol to new quote sheet


CPU = 65% - 70%
Mem: 2.30GB

QChart CPU = 52%
QChart memory = 1,05,000K and is climbing. now 1,60,000

Qcharts locked up and never came back. restarting.

[dcash]

Matt,

A note of caution on the speed tests you get on sites like Speakeasy. When I do the test on that site I get 18 Mbps as the result, but this is a misleading result. Comcast, my service provider, will let you have a "burst" speed for about 30 seconds to insure you get fast response on loading web pages. If you go past the 30 seconds on a download, you can watch them throttle back the speed until it drops to 8Mbps, which is what they advertise. I therefore recommend downloading a fairly large file to see what throughput you get over a longer period of time.

Larry is very correct about results varying by location. Even with Speakeasy, I get much faster results when I use a server close to me on the East coast than when I use a San Francisco server which is close to the QCharts server farm IIRC. Also, I have found the 6.0.x.yyyy releases to be very sensitive to the number of symbols that are active. Bandwidth requirements seem to pretty much increase linearly with the number of symbols.

Your message from this morning that notes constantly rising memory usage sounds like the classic description of a memory leak. I am taking a wild guess here, but if you combine a memory leak with some buffer overruns, you would expect to get random lockups and generally bad behavior from the application.

I remember I had the same problem with one of the earlier beta releases, but I cannot remember which one.

I too am envious of monster, multiple monitor setups. I only have 4 21" LCDs at the present. I guess you can never be too rich, too thin, have too much hard drive space, or have too many monitors.

-Dan

[tradertom]

Hi All,

I would suggest minimizing QCharts frequently to let it rest. It seems that the memory load recovers during minimized state. This is the single best thing I have found to keep QC up and running... I minimize between candles that I am trading on (if trading on 55 minute chart, minimize until the candle forms). This serves two purposes. It keeps me from watching the candles paint and it frees up memory. Give it a try!

Trade Well,
Tom

Edit: I have had QCharts running all morning (since about 8am) and it is showing 40MB after restoring from minimized state. I have 13 active charts (with WSB RTP indicators), 236 symbols (mostly stocks, maybe 20 indexes, dozen futures, 50 option symbols). It is almost noon now.

[tradertom]

As for Bill's monitors... have a look at them! I bet it gets nice and warm in his trading office!

Matt, here are some more XP memory tips:

Check your processor affinity. This might help with overall processor load. Open Task Manager, right-click on QCharts.exe on the Processes tab and click Set Affinity and make sure all CPUs are ticked. Only one was ticked when I found this setting. Check it each time you restart QCharts until it "sticks." I think it took three or four restarts to get the setting to stay.

Seek out and remove/replace memory or processor hog programs. Don't use Symantec or McAfee products. These applications are HOGS. They bury themselves in so many Windows cracks and crevices that I am surprised that any program can run. They cause more problems than they prevent, IMHO. There are many Antivirus and utility programs that are not so bloated that do a great job. Norton and McAfee are very problematic.

Don't use "swap user" function to log in or out of XP. This feature is a memory hog. Select Control Panel and select User Accounts, select "Change the way users log on or off" then un-tick the box "Use Fast User Switching."

I am sure there are more Windows features you can disable to save RAM and processor cycles... Try this one: Right-Click "My Computer" then click Properties then select Advanced tab and click Settings in the Performance box then Adjust for best performance. This will save some RAM for QCharts to use but it might make Windows not so pretty as well.

Also regular computer maintenance is important. regularly delete temp files, defrag the hard disk (check out jkdefrag... Free, works well and is very safe), and make regular backups (check out DriveImageXML for this. Free and works extremely well.)

Lastly, reboot daily if possible. XP hangs onto crap that consumes memory and over time it can overwhelm the RAM.

Trade Well!
Tom

[JimRutherford]

Matt, quick question. You recently tried the latest beta build and moved to 6.0.2 due to the indicators not matching what you see in 5.x

Are the lockups occuring in only 6.0.2? Does 5.x run relatively well compared? Did or does the latest beta build run without the same lockups that you see in 6.0.2?

Jim

[JimRutherford]

Originally posted by jmhuff-2
10:21 lockups very frequent when doing much of anything in qcharts.

My apologies if this is going out a second time. When I initially posted this response the forum server returned a bunch of errors.

Matt, quick question. You recently tried the latest beta build and moved to 6.0.2 due to the indicators not matching what you see in 5.x

Are the lockups occuring in only 6.0.2? Does 5.x run relatively well compared? Did or does the latest beta build run without the same lockups that you see in 6.0.2?

Jim

[jmhuff-2]

The lockup issue is occurring on 6.0.2. It also occurred on 6.0.3.1379 and the handful of others I have already uninstalled.

I don't think I have run 6.0.3.1413 during market hours to see if it gives the same lockup issues. I can try it though.

5.1.0.22 runs GREAT. The only problems I have had with 5 is the DOW ticker has been accurate, and recently I found out that the 5 data isn't reliable.

I did notice today that when qcharts 6.0.2 started locking up alot, and finally crashed that the memory indicator at the bottom was 900-something and was appearing yellow.