Status of EFS as automated platform

[tinker70]

I'm an EFS-newbie who has been looking into using eSignal/EFS as an automated trading platform. I've seen the posts that list the problems that even eSignal acknowledges would make EFS less than desirable for an automated trading system. Also, the inability to get fill confirmations, etc. makes it difficult. And it doesn't seem like eSignal is ready quite yet ("soon") to deploy enhanced functionality to fix those shortcomings.

Then there's the combination of EFS and NinjaTrader or dynaOrder (long gone, though), but that's yet another set of software to buy/install/etc.

Brad M posted awhile back the following:

1. Do you need simply BUY and SELL orders for your system - if so, then use the esignal tools to execute the orders.

2. Do you need more complex order structures (buy/sell market/limit/stoplimit/other - including cancellation/modification of each unique order type), then use DynaOrder. www.dynaorder.com

3. Do you need to be able to execute a specific "strategy" and simply want to develop entry triggers. Then use NinjaTrader. www.ninjatrader.com

I have developed for all three and found benefits for each. Of course, the last two are a bit more difficult to write code for, but the provide additional benefits for controlling the actions of your system.

Dynaorder is a good intermediate solution with good documentation.

I'm in the #2 or #3 bullet on that list. So, all that said, I would say that EFS isn't ready for an automated trading system...but that's just my opinion. I'd love to hear from some of you either pro or con.

Also, I'd appreciate any other suggestions (e.g., use the eSignal ActiveX tools; use eSignal with some of Brad M's tools; convert my EFS code to NinjaTrader (or some other tool) and forget about eSignal; etc.).

Thanks much.

Tinker70

[Doji3333]

Tinker,

I've developed and run many automated systems with EFS. And yes you can develop completely automated system with fill confirmation and more.

There are some tricks to developing a fully automated efs though and if you don't have experience with handling process structures in efs, then you might select a professional programmer to assist you.

If you need more help, then please let me know?? I just wanted to state that EFS can and does support full order automation (with the right tools and experience). Anyone can develop a completely automated trading solution.

[merkro]

Doji, I am very interested in your comments, and would appreciate any pointers you can give. I have written many dozens of Automated trading efs's over the last couple of years, experimenting with different combinations of trading conditions, however am not game to try any of them live, regardless of the promise they show.

My biggest problem has been fill confirmation, and even the simple act of reversing a position has caused angst. So, will you answer a couple of questions please?

Are your methods Broker dependant? (I use the Zenfire plugin).

Is a special front end/interface required in addition to the Broker plugin? (I have been using the Virtual Broker system only, with the standard eSignal Pro.).

Have you been successful in retrieving a fill price?

I have found that when I close a position, I must kill time waiting for the next bar before opening a position in the opposite direction, as the EFS issues the close command, followed by the open command, only to be told a position cannot be opened until a position in the opposite direction is closed. I have not yet discovered a method to determine when the position has actually closed, so as to allow another position to be opened.

Would you be prepared to supply an example EFS using a simple MA Xover for entry/exit, either in this thread or privatly for a fee?

Look forward to your comments. eSignal say the first major update after V11 will contain most of what we need to achieve our aim, however when I gave up MT4 and joined eSignal almost two years ago, the eminent interface release was supposedly 3 months away.

I'm sure there are dozens like me who would hang on every word of your work-arounds.

Cheers

Mervk

[Doji3333]

Originally posted by merkro
Doji, I am very interested in your comments, and would appreciate any pointers you can give. I have written many dozens of Automated trading efs's over the last couple of years, experimenting with different combinations of trading conditions, however am not game to try any of them live, regardless of the promise they show.

My biggest problem has been fill confirmation, and even the simple act of reversing a position has caused angst. So, will you answer a couple of questions please?

Are your methods Broker dependant? (I use the Zenfire plugin).

Is a special front end/interface required in addition to the Broker plugin? (I have been using the Virtual Broker system only, with the standard eSignal Pro.).

Have you been successful in retrieving a fill price?

I have found that when I close a position, I must kill time waiting for the next bar before opening a position in the opposite direction, as the EFS issues the close command, followed by the open command, only to be told a position cannot be opened until a position in the opposite direction is closed. I have not yet discovered a method to determine when the position has actually closed, so as to allow another position to be opened.

Would you be prepared to supply an example EFS using a simple MA Xover for entry/exit, either in this thread or privatly for a fee?

Look forward to your comments. eSignal say the first major update after V11 will contain most of what we need to achieve our aim, however when I gave up MT4 and joined eSignal almost two years ago, the eminent interface release was supposedly 3 months away.

I'm sure there are dozens like me who would hang on every word of your work-arounds.

Cheers

Mervk

Let me try to answer these for you.

First off, order confirmation issues. I've learned a few tricks with NinjaTrader (NT) in the sense that you have to create NEW UNIQUE IDs for each order you fire to the broker. I realized this when NT started rejecting orders because the ID I was using was already in use.

Beyond that issue, firing any type of order and waiting for a FILL is not a big deal. You simply have to create a process in your efs script to "wait for the order to fill" or "cancel the order if needed".

NinjaTrader supports ZenFire as a data/broker connection, so you should have no problems using NT with esignal to create a fully automated system.

With regards to the delay (end of bar) for firing orders - I've never seen this? It might be an issue with the ZenFire esignal plug-in, but I don't use the plug-ins because I have greater abilities with NT or my other utilities to connect to brokers.

Would I supply a working example of an auto-trading NT solution - huh? Not for free. My experience and knowledge of how to create these tools is part of my business. Like finding a great mechanic, when you find the guy that has great ability and knowledge, he's worth every penny you spend. I'll PM you about this issue.

My work-arounds are nothing more than targeted development. Let me give you an example, I have a client that runs over 80 feeder files (feeding needed data to a "master compilation system" or "MCS"). The MCS compiles all the needed data and then sends triggers to an automated trading system. The automated trading system fires orders thru NT into the broker.

There are many tricks and ways to accomplish advanced abilities in EFS. It just takes a bit of understanding on how esignal works and what you can (or can't) get away with.

Also, a killer i7 PC helps.

Wait for my PM.

[merkro]

Doji, thanks for your answer, and I see how you are achieving this now. Prior to switching to eSignal, I did a lot of work in MT4 for forex, and still have two 'Plodder' (small return) systems trading 24/7 giving me pocket money.

I switched to eSignal nearly two years ago, because I felt it had more to offer for eMinins, and was ready to release the be all end all auto trading interface. This is the interface we are still waiting for.

For me it would be a backward step to integrate my trading between eSignal and Ninja. Trading from two platforms is cumbersome from the point of view of screen real estate, computing power, bandwidth, dual platform costs, and eye strain. Besides, I'm too old to start learning programming on a third platform. It's tedious enough trying to unscramble eSignal V11.

The eSignal virtual broker has all the info I need. It returns fill confirmation, qty, and fill price, which it uses to update the Account Manager. All it needs to do is make that info available, which should not be impossible for the gurus in development. The simple act of printing this info to a file whilst updating the display would be a start.

Thanks for the offer of help with NT, and I do not wish to sound ungrateful, but I've waited so long now for eSignal to deliver thier trading interface, I guess I'll wait a few months more.

I enjoy and learn from all of your posts, and envy your knowledge.

Cheers

Mervk

[merkro]

Jason, this is chilling news for those of us who have been waiting a couple of years for promised updates, and who are using a bug riddled plug-in (Zenfire), and not IB. As a non IB user, I expect our V11.2 Gold may be some time in 2012?

In the meantime, how about a quick band aid in V10.6 of printing data to a temp file as the account manager is updated? If those of us waiting on this interface are to continue to patronize eSignal, then we need more than broken promises.

Cheers

Merv

[eSignal_JasonK]

Hello Merv,

Thank you for your feedback. Unfortunately development priorities can change for various business reasons, which can push projects out farther that we had originally planned. You need to keep in mind that we can only give you our best intentions based on the priorities as they exist at any given time.

Our target for new versions of eSignal 11.x will typically be every quarter. If that does not change in the future, then 11.2 could be mid to late 2011. Of course, this is subject to change.

Regarding Zen-Fire, if you have encountered any bugs that have not already been reported to this forum, please start a new thread for each issue with as many details as possible. Our Broker Support and QA team will investigate.

Please explain in more detail what you're are asking for in regards to the 10.6 fix. What is the problem that you need to solve with this?

... band aid in V10.6 of printing data to a temp file as the account manager is updated?

[merkro]

Jason, thanks for replying. We do understand priorities change - just don't understand how the virtual broker trading interface can have such a low priority it cannot escape the bottom of the list.

The Zenfire bugs have all been reported, and still remain. No one within my circle of trading peers use it. They have all reverted to Ninja for live trading. All problems are to do with orders reversing rather then closing. There are many posts on the subject. The latest information I have is that it "will be fixed with V11".

As for the band aid - the Account manager Message tab holds sufficient information to give enough info to make successful EFS trading through eSignal alone. If, when printing the messages to the 'Message' tab, the same info could be printed to a temp file, then I would be able to retrieve fill confirmation, fill qty, fill price, or order rejection.

Would current priorities allow the time to implement this feature?

Merv Kroll