Announcement

**soylent** · 03-13-2004, 10:01 PM

Yahoo! Can't wait to hear how it goes.

For me, I just use a web browser or the telephone.

BUYING:
I place limit orders @ a point I expect the stock to dip to intraday. For this I use OptionsXPress.

I know most daytraders would puke @ the slowness of a web-based interface. But, I like the calmness of preparing the order, setting the limit to what I expect it to 'come back for' and seeing the trade go off. It gives me time to think it through. Rarely does the stock not come back to my order.

Anyhow, I like to buy support rather than momentum because my stop can be tighter.

SELLING:
I watch the indicators for weakness and dump @ market when I don't like something. Sometimes I'll try to babysit (trail a stop) a position but not often. The 'meat' of the move occurs (and, lowest risk) occurs when my indicators say BUY. After that there is a middle period where the stock has an impulse I'm riding and after that who knows?

Or, I pick up the phone and tell my broker to do the same...

I don't use esignal for orders because I can only use 1 brokerage account and I can't see if my order executed in realtime.

-c

**cpatte7372** · 03-13-2004, 10:11 PM

Soylent,

Would you happen to know the advantages/disadvantages of using esignal instead of one of the online brokers.

Also, do you how one goes about using esignal to place orders?

Cheers

Carlton

**FibbGann** · 03-13-2004, 11:31 PM

Datek was bought buy Ameritrade, which I would highly advise staying away from. Their sytem is a true POS and their executions are horrible to say the least. Average execution time is 30 to 60 seconds if not longer of late.

I use limit to get in and market to get out.

As far as good brokers (online)

There are only two I would consider.

Cybertrade: great execution, average commison is $9.99 (equities), awsome trader tools. I could go on and on about cybertrade.

Interactive Broker: Supposedly has better comissions for small size traders.

I would recommend Cybertrade all the way.

Fibbgann

**cpatte7372** · 03-13-2004, 11:35 PM

Fibbgann,

What about E*Trade?

Carlton

**FibbGann** · 03-13-2004, 11:37 PM

Cpatte the two I noted, received the best overall rating based on performance and importance. E*Trade did not make that list.
NOTE: These are just my opinions!!!

Fibbgann

**cpatte7372** · 03-13-2004, 11:39 PM

Thanks,

Just one more question. Is it necessary to use an online broker with esignal or is possible to trade direct just with esignal?

Cheers

Carlton

**FibbGann** · 03-13-2004, 11:42 PM

Someone correct me If am wrong, but I don't beleive esignal is a broker for online trading.

Fibbgann

**AllenCook** · 03-14-2004, 02:36 AM

Carlton:

FibbGann is correct. eSignal is not a broker but rather just a data provider that also offers software to make use of that data (such as charting, etc.)

As for brokers, you may want to do a little more research. Although there are many types of brokers, probably for your purposes, there are 2 main types to be aware of. Those that you place orders with that act as "middlemen" and direct access brokers. With the first type they are basically acting as an agent for you to the exchanges and may even take the other side of your trade (firms such as E*Trade, Ameritrade, etc.) Direct access means that you are literally trading directly with the exchange of the product you are trading (such as the NYSE specialist or Nasdaq market makers, etc.). Direct access brokers would include Interactive Brokers ("IB"), CyberTrader, Tradestation, etc.

There are advantages/disadvantages to both but the main difference is that obviously, speed of execution (obviously with direct access [usually] the faster.)

The main criteria for choosing is primarily dependent on the type of trading you do. For example, the first type may be okay for swing trading, intermediate-term position trading or investing. If you daytrade and the length of your trades is quite short and dependent on speed of execution you want direct access. Of course, you can have more than one brokerage account with different brokers and segregate your trading accordingly.

My suggestion to you would be to go to another website such as EliteTrader.com and you will see reviews on brokers there. You can also try daytradingstocks.com for a pretty good list of broker sites. Also, brokers will offer different trading tools and/or platforms that can really vary (some will offer charting such as what eSignal provides.) Also, there are some brokers that you can integrate their order platform/software into eSignal. Although I would not recommend this at first until you have more experience. You can just run the software concurrently.

Please take this as constructive criticism but it appears that you may have been studying quite a bit but it seems that you have focused primarily on technical analysis (and maybe a little bit on money management).

Don't ignore the other aspects of trading and tools involved. In particular, you need to understand the difference direct access brings, the different types of orders you place imarket vs. limit, etc.), the exchange rules on which you trade (especially "Pattern Day Trader" rules if you fund your account with less than $25K) and make sure that you understand the order platform you are using (a lot of bokers will allow you to "demo"). Just to name a few.

Most importantly, make sure that you spend just as much time understanding risk and money management and I don't mean just using stops. For example, make sure that you have position sizing rules in place, etc.

Probably some of the best advice when finally placing trades, is to think and start "small" particularly until you know intimately the software that you are using including its pitfalls.

Sorry for the long reply and others may have a different take but just my 2 cents.

**cpatte7372** · 03-14-2004, 03:10 AM

AllenCook,

That is exactly the kind of information I need.

Thanks a lot mate.

Carlton

**soylent** · 03-14-2004, 08:00 AM

Originally posted by cpatte7372
Soylent,

Would you happen to know the advantages/disadvantages of using esignal instead of one of the online brokers.

Also, do you how one goes about using esignal to place orders?

Cheers

Carlton

eSignal just allows you to submit an order to one of several selected brokerages.

The 'Advantage':
- When I scalp (on occasion, I do, when things get light), I can keep an eye on the TICK and enter orders w/o leaving the trade screen. (Try it in PAPER TRADE mode -- it is rather cool)

The Disadvantage:
- I can't enter a complex order -- e.g. Auto-stop, trailing-stop, One-cancels-other, etc...
- I think they fixed in 7.5/7.6, but it used to be you couldn't see if you got a fill. This made it completely useless because I'd put in an order and then have to go to my broker to see if it filled.

To use esignal placing an order:
Just look @ the TRADE menu and play w/ it.

If there is ONE thing about eSignal: The documentation/training is a bit light... eSignal is awesome but you definitely have to learn it 'in the dark'. Just play w/ it in paper trade mode. When I first learned / tried the plugin for TRADING, I used it 'after hours' so I wouldn't get a fill -- just to see how quick it would take the order, etc... It works, for sure... But, you definitely have to play w/ it to figure it out.

I don't use it. And, I'd recommend you use the broker-supplied interface until you feel comfortable dabling w/ the built-in interface. One less thing to learn about / worry about for now...

To expand on ONE THING:
Allen's post regarding pattern day trading: Carlton, if you don't know what this is, it could be important.

Basically, Pattern Day Trading is a boon/bane. If you are deemed 'pattern', they will give you 4:1 leverage on stocks (vs. 2:1). But, you must have $25k in your account. If you have less than $25K, you will be limited to buying 'only what's in your account on that day'. i.e. Lets say you place a BUY order and a STOP. The stock hits the buy but bounces slightly below your stop. Then it starts to rally. If you get classified as PATTERN w/ < 25K, you will not be able to re-buy that stock that day... Your 'day buying power' is dried up. With more than $25K, it's nice because you can go 4:1 leverage.

This is even CRAPPIER (can I use that word?) in an IRA. Even if you have $200K in an IRA, those weezels will lock your funds for 3 days after you sell! Thus, you must use very wide stops if you really want to stay in a position... (However, OPTIONS are not under that restriction so I've stopped trading stocks and just use options / futures in my IRA).

I know this will probably generate a lot of questions. The best thing I can say is to take a look @ the rulings on this. My 'sum it all up' suggestion:
- < $25K open a FUTURES account and trade commodities / indexes.
- > $25K it's irrellevant.

-c

**cpatte7372** · 03-14-2004, 10:51 AM

Soylent,

That is excellent.

Cheers mate.

Carlton

**cpatte7372** · 03-14-2004, 02:17 PM

Thanks guys,

I'm getting some cool feedback.

Cheers

Carlton

**DuaneG** · 03-15-2004, 11:45 AM

Hi Carlton,

I would perhaps try out a few different trading execution simulators provided by various brokerage firms to get a feel of what works for your style of trading. I know that CyberTrader has a simulator that is fun to work with. I'm sure that IB has something similar, but my experience has been with CyberTrader If anyone has any input on the IB test platform, a balanced comparison between the two would be most valuable.

**FibbGann** · 03-15-2004, 04:32 PM

I am sticking with Cyber on this one.I integrate Cyber and esingal together. It is almost the perfect platform for me.

Fibbgann

Announcement

Placing Orders

Placing Orders

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment