Issue with Renko in 7.4

[mkm]

After loading the new beta 607 I have to realize that
the drift problem of the renko MA is already not fixed.

I am waiting now for more then 6 Month that e-signal is solving this problem.

Now it is enough. It is unbelievable that nobody is interested in this problem in several posts it is written that in one of the "next" versions it is fixed, I don´t believe this.

It was awful for me to spend so much time in learning about this programming and handling.

I would recommend anybody to search for another software for trading because I think with e-signal you are waisting time and money.

Another fact is that it was impossible to make a real back test! Backtest should be minimum one year, but longer then to month is impossible with e-signal.

[fabrizio]

MKM

Are you aware ogf the issue on Renko?

There is 3 forum 1 foiir renko, 1 for PF and 1 of open discussion about this graphic intrepretation of prices.

I hope you will change your Idea on this platform and enjoy it as many pros and non pros are doing presently.

At least for the kindeness of the people tthat is assisting us.

Cordially

[ScottJ]

MKM,

This thread on PnF and Renko was quite active and illustrated varying viewpoints on how Renko should be handled. We are very interested in finally breaking down what issues remain and resolving them as quickly as possible (looking at either ver 7.5 or 8.0, both due out by the end of the year).

As Fabrizio mentioned, we've set-up new threads for the specific purpose of discussing these studies and moving forward. We'd appreciate any input you care to offer.

Final note, we are on target to increase our intraday history ( on most issues ) with the 7.5 release. We'll increase from 60 days to roughly 120 and the database will then grow each day from there until we reach 2 years of history.

Thanks.

P.S. 7.4 went Gold last week and uses build 608. You can download it here.

[kcramer]

mkm,

Not sure if these problems are related but I posted an issue related to lagging indicators. It seems esignal indicators are unable to keep up with the market, even when it's slow. It's really apparent on the Donchain Channels. After a while market prices begin to drift out of the channel, and all the other indicators begin to drift.

!!!!!!!THIS IS A SERIOUS PROBLEM.....

…. because it's fundamental to a working/reliable trading system. I'm not recommending dumping esig, yet, but I would recommend that esig drop ALL enhancements scheduled for 7.5 and address the "fundamental problem" with their system. It's absurd to keep adding bells and whistles when the system has a major defect.

I hope Esignal’s Development, QA, Customer/Technical Support, and most importantly Management is aware that a major defect exists in their product. It should be recalled and taken off the market if there are no plans to fix this in version 7.5.

The reality is that people may be losing lots of $$$ on bad indicators and not realize why. Since I trade the ES at the sub 100-tick level the problem may be most apparent on my system and may not be noticeable on 1, 5 or 10min charts, but who knows.

I will continue using the esignal console and recommend it to those on other platforms up to when I don’t feel esignal considers the problem important enough to be resolved, or when I lose money using their platform. I’ve invested too much time moving my indicators from a competitive platform and customizing everything for my trading system to bail now. Although you have waited 6 months and counting for a fix mtm, I have just starting my crusade.

K.

[eSignal_Todd]

There are 2 issues in this thread and it looks like Scott addressed the first one about the Renko chart. As he indicated, we have threads dedicated to feedback on the PnF and Renko charts so we can work on enhancing them and fixing any problems. Some things are actual problems while others are user preferences, so we need all the feedback we can get.

The second issue is the problem of indicators not keeping pace with price bars when using Tick type charts (Raw Tick, Tick Bars, Seconds Bars, Volume Bars, and Price Change Bars) This is something that's relatively new and hasn't been a problem for many users because of the specific issues. It hasn't got a lot of comments in the board, but we do plan on fixing the problem as soon as we can.

Tick type intervals pull in all ticks even if the chart isn't displaying everything. This includes trade data and Bid/Ask quotes. What seems to be happening is that the charts are correctly displaying the price data, but the indicators are reacting to all the ticks including the Bid/Ask quotes and end up getting out of sync with the price bars. This is more noticeable with higher volume symbols like the minis which have a lot of Bid/Ask quotes and is also more obvious on symbols that have more volatility because the price movement that the indicator is following starts moving faster than the price bars themselves.

Some indicators also don't move as much as others, so the problem isn't noticed even though it still exists. Refreshing the chart brings the indicators temporaily back in line because the indicator ends up plotting only on the price bars, but then starts getting out of sync again as the new data comes in.

We plan to find out more about how the formulas are reacting to the ticks so we can fix this in the next release.

Thank you,

[fabrizio]

Thanks to Todd Clear Vision and Scott's patience, supportive ability and consistent help to everybody request and complains

I am firmly convinced that a complain Must remain as is it.
No way to transform it in a accusatory statement nor has to became a tentative to induct satisfied customers to think.Ho my, this platform has something.....
I am a fully satisfied customer, who gets profits from this tool and - even more important- learn day by day from other people. And I am not a Kid.(unfortunately)

…. because it's fundamental to a working/reliable trading system. I'm not recommending dumping esig, yet, but I would recommend that esig drop ALL enhancements scheduled for 7.5 and address the "fundamental problem" with their system. It's absurd to keep adding bells and whistles when the system has a major defect.

My non requested (and non polemic) testimony: ESIGNAL IS A RELIABLE SYSTEM.
I trade from 25 to 40 contracts RT a day , 5 days a week . Makes -roughly- 7200/9000 a year . Not a scalper, just position on different futures and sizing.
Am I entitled - just for the amount of money I give to my brokers- to say that I stress this platform?

I will continue using the esignal console and recommend it to those on other platforms

Is there a reason why a gentleman should say what above? what does add to his "outraged" opinion?

Would you address yourself to the CEO of Wolks -AUDI or to his staff in such a fashion last time that you discovered on your rabbit ( or SR6) that the shape of the gear handle was not as you expected? or when you discovered that the Audi coupe' over the 140 kms was flipping head to tail on a straight lane because there was not enough aerodynamics pressure on the back? Great car sure but with that little detail.....

I answer for you: NO. For there would be NOBODY listening you - in the extent that this BB is doing to everybody- and therefore no detailed ANSWER or exchange of opinions.

Once more, risking to be boring: I believe in this company, I believe in what they do and in the manner they do it and treat their customers.

And I am deeply satisfied with this platform even if there is still a number of things to ....adjust and improve.

I was yesterday on the telephone with Steve Hawkins who invented with Steidelmayer the Market Profile and is engaged in support Esignal people to realize the state of the art of MP and VP on the market.
He is the top in his field and highly speaks of this company: what a customer could desire more ? They do not take the third or 4th: they use the Top dog around. This is Sense of excellence.

And the internal teams are made by "ichi ban" people.

Conclusion: a complain must remain a complain not an insult to the work and the intelligence of people.

Cordially

[kcramer]

To esignal_todd,

I appreciate your response to the drifing indicator issue and look forward to quick resolution. If you need any help testing a fix, please let me know. I would be glad to help any way I can.

Thanks again,
K.

[kcramer]

To fabrizio,

Thank you for your response and I appreciate your point of view.

I typically do not respond to posts such as yours as it takes up too much of my precious time and usually does not add any value to the discussion. However, I believe that you and maybe others completely misunderstood its content and purpose, so I choose to respond.

This will be my one and only post in response to yours, as I believe the purpose of this forum is intended to raise issues/solve problems for esignal customers, not for individuals to insult each other. With a positive purpose in mind, I will respond to your post in the most polite way I can muster up.

First, I share in your appreciation for Todd, Scott and everyone else that supports this forum in a constructive ways. A review of my few posts, including this one, supports my assertion.

Second, my post was not a complaint it was a scream in response to a problem that others are beginning to experience. It doesn’t accuse, insult, complain, or imply anyone of wrongdoing. Read it again! Have you ever heard the term “the squeaky wheel gets the grease?” Well, I’m just trying to squeak loud enough before I or someone else loses his or her wagon (money) on faulty indicator readings.

I like analogies and appreciate the one you gave. I just wished I had used one in my original post. It may have given you and others my perspective of the problem and maybe an appreciation for its severity. Now let me offer this analogy for thought:

A patient is in the hospital with a heart condition. He is connected to monitors that record various cardiovascular and respiratory parameters. Unknown to the hospital, the monitors are faulty. They accurately display and record data as it comes in but as the information ages a few seconds or minutes, it gets out of sync, just enough for the doc to incorrectly interpret the patient’s actual condition.

Now, how would you like to be that patient with nurses and doctors make life saving decisions based on faulty data? I wouldn’t and I don’t believe you would either. If you knew about the problem, would you try to get someone’s attention to get it fixed ASAP? I would!

I am not sure that I can properly address your conviction about mixing complaints with complements, or how I can scream about a problem I am having in one paragraph and recommend the product in another, but I’ll give it a shot. Let me premise my shot with the point that I have used several charting packages and worked with other companies. Here it goes:

The total value of the esignal package, including datafeed, console, support, BB, product quality, cost of service, Todd, and Scott outweighs the problem.

There it is!

Keep in mind that I believe a small percentage of esignal customers have my problem. But for those that do, it’s critical. Esignal may work 100% with your trading style but it doesn’t with mine.

It’s late and I’m tired. Thanks for reading and I hope it helped.

K.

[Seshadri]

Well Said

Hi KCramer,

I would like to applaud you for a well written, restrained reply to a self-appointed BB vigilante who thinks any critical point of view of eSignal software is a personal affront to him and writes gibberish (in such bad english too)!!

I don't know whether eSignal folks encourage him to go on like this or not. He paraphrased my comments on Renko and P&F charts the other day and wrote some garbage which I did not care to acknowledge.

This kind of vigilante activity should be stopped by eSignal forthwith if they are serious about getting any real feedback from their customers about their product.

Sesh

[ScottJ]

Sesh and kcramer,

FWIW, we really do appreciate all the feedback, albeit good or bad. Most anyone in business realizes you have to seek out the negative to really figure out how to improve.

On the flip side, it's pretty rare to see customers care enough to stick up for a company in the face of criticism. We greatly appreciate the support we receive here on Central and on other forums throughout the web.

Most of all, we appreciate that so many users have made eSignal Central a place to talk about trading and have helped make eSignal the product it is today. As we hope you can tell by our aggressive development schedule, we aren't ever satisfied with where we are; it's where we're going that truly counts and our customers help point us in the right direction.

From California, have a great night everyone.

Thanks.

[fabrizio]

Re: Well Said

Originally posted by Seshadri
Hi KCramer,

I would like to applaud you for a well written, restrained reply to a self-appointed BB vigilante who thinks any critical point of view of eSignal software is a personal affront to him and writes gibberish (in such bad english too)!!

I don't know whether eSignal folks encourage him to go on like this or not. He paraphrased my comments on Renko and P&F charts the other day and wrote some garbage which I did not care to acknowledge.

This kind of vigilante activity should be stopped by eSignal forthwith if they are serious about getting any real feedback from their customers about their product.

Sesh

Sesh
In a very polite manner you stopped posting: Thanks for coming back, but honestly I did not missed you.

So said, I appreciate the Kcramer post, and this is it. He actually explained were I was wrong from his point of view and I accept it. But he did it in a 100% proper and orthodox manner. So I can do everything but consider him correct. Further more in some extent I wrongly interpreted two lines of his post. And I apologize for that.

Kcramer is not the point, he is a man and has my respect as anyone else: as I said to Linus, shout to be listen its right, until we stay within a certain " frame". So a BB is just for that: to be listen and to allow the corp. to improve in a bottom up procedure.

The point is the people like yourself Sesh: In a pm to Linus, I reminded that for people like you- and the evidence of fact is easy to spot by yours messages- use Internet to do or say things that they would never ever do in REAL, looking straight in the eyes the other person, without fumbling with the words.

I believe that You are- in some way - a problem , as a person too intelligent.
But irrespective for that I do not ask to anyone to ban you. For there is no need to: you will learn it from your own life.

The vigilantes - as you called me - once more showing your attitude to use a monitor as a shield, its a nice nickname.

The only thing that baffle me is that I'm not sure you did all by yourself : for it is too nice to have been generated by your angry 300 IQ super mental structure. But who knows the divine providence exists, and now you are here talking to us , teaching as usually something that I will never forget.
Thank you, from the deep of my hart to exist sesh.
You are a sort of benchmark : allow me to distinguish something from something else. Thanks

Sorry for my English, I hope that during the rest of my life I will improve it, as well as I will improve my french, my Spanish, my Portuguese, my Italian, and the little understanding of Cantonese and Japanese that I developed Living in Hong Kong and in Tokyo.
For what is concerning Latin I think I'm fine and for Antique Greek I believe I should reshuffle my old books of grammar .

Again thanks for being here sesh.
You are really ONE OF A KIND.

Cordially

Fabrizio

PS: Kcramer: if your time is so precious why did you spent it to answer a "post like mine". Again I did not offended anyone and in return I did not see in your post the contraddictory that I expected to my statements.
The whole story as ususal in this cases is little "hairy", so let's stop it here.
Abbiate buon tempo ragazzini.

[Seshadri]

Scott,

I agree that everyone, including a company is delighted when someone sticks up for them on an issue. However, when this "sticking up" borders on harassment of another customer simply for raising a genuine issue, then it is something else.

I hope and I am sure that as a Moderator of this BB you will not allow anyone to launch personal attacks or harass anyone regardless of their affinity to the company or their product. Please let us keep this BB strictly for postings on issues only.

Thanks.

Sesh

[gspiker]

I hope and I am sure that as a Moderator of this BB you will not allow anyone to launch personal attacks or harass anyone regardless of their affinity to the company or their product. Please let us keep this BB strictly for postings on issues only.

I hope you don't mean that literally - this BB is much more than a forum for raising issues, and should continue to be so.

[whizz]

What a fun thread.

I spent 15 years managing the development of software products, and from my perspective, the whole Renko Issue is fairly simple.

When there is a bug, such as the Renko Refresh bug, the issue is not really for the Esignal Central moderators to fix......rather, it is their job to bring the necessary issue to management's attention.

If management, for whatever reason, decides that fixing bugs is secondary to product enhancements, there is nothing that the project leads and programmers can do.

When I worked for Oracle, there were MAJOR bugs in released code, but the Sales and Marketing departments had the power, and they demanded that resources be used to add bells and whistles to help them sell products......the fact that existing customers had to find workarounds, or hire consultants to fix production code was not deemed important.

It's the way business works. As long the product is 'good enough' to keep people on board, they are left to stew in their own juices over some perceived minor problem they may be having.

The users of Renko charts seem to be a minority, and hence, cannot make enough noise for management to take notice of. The renko issues are not new, and there have been numerous threads that have pointed out the problems. There are bugs.

In a perfect world, software products would be fully tested before release, and problems immediately addressed when customers pointed them out. New features and enhancements would take a back seat to the scrubbing of existing code.

Nine months ago I was told that this issue was being worked on.
I have now moved from the "expecting a fix" stage to "hoping for a fix" stage. Perhaps I'll have to move to the "no hope" stage while frantically clicking to refresh the numerous renko charts I watch on my workspace. I realize that I'm a minority user, and that my particular issue is of minor relevance.

I can't imagine how I've been able to trade without the amazing ability to, for example, undock my charts from the workspace. But the business of business is to sell product, and if that helps sell product, then that is where the resources will go. There is no mystery, no pondering of the navel to figure out why-oh-why, and no point in gnashing of teeth over these kinds of issues. It will get fixed if it gets fixed, and that is that.

Cheers

[mkm]

Two facts e-sig is not to recommend!!!

whizz,

one of the best statements in this thread, thank you! Exactly what I think. That´s the reason because I founded this thread, to push the fight between selling the product and maintain the product. The programmers had the priority to make more gimmicks and features which sells, and nobody has enough time to solve some simple probelms, that is what makes me angry

to the management of e-signal,

of course it´s nice to grow faster and faster and earn money but never forget the point when the minority parts, like me, grow to fast, then it takes not a long time you start to grow in the front and loose on the back side, so don´t forget looking on the backside! It is much more easier and cheaper to satisfy an existing customer then to find a new customer! Never forget the balance between growing and quality. If you want to be sometimes the market leader, you have to be reliable in every part not only in most of the parts.
That is valid here in Germany, where the trading community is in stone age, but I think also all over the world.

For me personally e-signal now has already a chance, but no more for a long time.

To all

thanks a lot for all of your efforts and threads, I was very surprised what a avalanche of interest a critical and abrasive thread brings.

I hope all the efforts brings us all together to a better understanding, to a better software and to a better performance and consequently to earn more money in the markets, that is what is my wish for me and for all of you!

Yours
Peter
from MKM