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  • Carl Futia speaks

    Below is a forecast from Carl Futia, my opinion an absolute genius. Enjoy.

    THE U.S. STOCK MARKET IN 2005

    December 31, 2004


    We have made year-ahead stock market forecasts based on George
    Lindsay's methods twice before, the first time on January 2, 2003 and
    then again on January 5, 2004. To put our 2005 forecast in
    perspective we first quote from the summaries of the 2003 and 2004
    forecasts.

    From the January 2, 2003 forecast:

    "The 20 year cycle…and Lindsay's 12 and 15 year periods all suggest
    that a bear market low occurred in 2002 and that a bull market top is
    due possibly as early as late 2004 but more likely sometime in 2005.

    "The top from the market's December 2002 top will probably end at a
    low above the October 2002 low and terminate the basic decline which
    began from the march 18, 2002 top. Counting forward a long basic
    advance of 26 to 32 months from the upcoming secondary low also
    projects a bull market top for 2005. Finally, we suspect that the
    first stage of this bull market will take the form of Lindsay's three
    peaks and a domed house formation."

    From the March 21, 2003 update to this forecast:

    "…the low established on March 12 [2003] ended the drop from the 954
    top [of December 2002]…Counting forward 26 to 32 months (a long or
    extended basic advance) from March 12 we find a bull market high
    likely sometime between May and November 2005…..If this foldback
    pattern continues to develop the market should now rally to the level
    of the top of the big rally which preceeded the drop into the July,
    2002 low. This is the 1178 level…After 1178 is reached [in late 2003
    or in 2004] the foldback pattern would then call for a drop to the
    940 level (2004?) …and then a rally to 1320 (mid 2005)."

    From the January 5, 2004 forecast:

    "These calculations all point to the same general conclusion. The
    first half of 2004 should be bullish although not as strong as the
    last 9 months of 2003. A good part of the year's first 9 months will
    probably be spent in an 80 point trading range [in the S&P]. A top
    should develop around 1178 and be followed by a substantial break of
    120-180 S&P points and this break will probably end in the fall of
    2004. After that low a fast advance lasting 7 to 8 months should
    culminate at the peak of the domed house and a bull market top around
    1340 in 2005."

    What can Lindsay's methods tell us about 2005?

    First let's consider the 20 year cycle and Lindsay's long term time
    periods. The years 1985, 1965, 1945, 1925 and 1905 were all bullish
    years for U.S. stocks. Lindsay's 15 year 3 month period from bear
    market lows to bull market highs reinforces this 20 year cycle,
    bullish prognosis. Adding 15 years 3 months to the October 1990 low
    predicts a bull market top for January 31, 2006. Moreover, adding 12
    years 10 months (Lindsay's time period from bull market tops to
    bear market lows) to the January 31, 1994 top (which started a year
    long sideway's period) predicts a bear market low for December 1,
    2006. The predicted 10 month interval from 2006 high to 2006 low is
    the length of one of Lindsay's basic declines. This internal
    consistency reinforces our confidence in the forecast of a bullish
    2005.

    The next step in Lindsay's forecast technique is to consider the
    status of the market in terms of his theory of basic advances. These
    are time intervals, measured in calendar days, which typically start
    at bear market lows or at secondary lows near the bear market low and
    end at or very near the subsequent bull market top. In our 2003 and
    2004 forecasts we noted that the 1998-2000 basic advance was
    abnormally short. Lindsay's theory of alternation would therefore
    lead us to expect an abnormally long basic advance for the 2002- 2005
    bull market. After analyzing the basic declines during the 2000-2002
    bear market we concluded that the March 12, 2003 secondary low
    probably marked the start of a long or extended basic advance. This
    in turn implies that a bull market top should probably develop
    sometime between May and November of 2005.

    The fact that Lindsay's theory of basic advances predicts a bull
    market top before his long term time periods do also has some
    implications. Lindsay often observed that when these two forecast
    methods are out of sync by a few months the market does its best to
    make both "come true" for all practical purposes. In this instance we
    would therefore expect either a top very near the average forecast
    date (i.e. around September- October 2005) or alternately (see below)
    a top in July followed by a sideways trading range that terminate in
    January 2006. In either case 2006 should be a bearish year.

    At this juncture we also have two additional pieces of information
    that were not available a year ago.

    In the previous two annual forecasts we said that we expected a
    Lindsay "three peaks and a domed house" formation to develop during
    the 2002-2005 bull market. Just such a pattern developed in the Dow
    Industrials during 2004. The three peaks came in February, June and
    September and spanned a 7 month interval. This compares favorably
    with the 6 to 10 month interval Lindsay observed for major examples
    of this 3P-DH pattern. The subsequent separating decline in the Dow
    ended on October 25 at 9708. We interpret the December 9 low as
    Lindsay's base point for measuring forward in time. To this date we
    add 7 months 10 days to predict July 19, 2005 for the top of the
    domed house rally and the end of the bull market. Lindsay also
    observed that after the domed house is completed the subsequent bear
    market returns at least to the price level at which the three peaks
    formation began. This in our interpretation is the 958 low of August
    2003. Thus 958 is a reasonable target for the bear market low
    expected late in 2006.

    The second piece of information is the development during 2004 of
    what Lindsay called the "middle" section of the basic advance. In
    this case it is a declining middle section and lasted from February
    to October in the Dow and from March to August in the S&P. We shall
    use the Dow to make our projections to maintain consistency with the
    3P-DH analysis above.

    Lindsay's "count from the middle section" is a long term tool and in
    principle can be used only to predict the timing of the next bear
    market low and of the subsequent bull market high. However, Lindsay
    himself often described the process of forecasting as similar to the
    process of assembling a jig-saw puzzle. All of the pieces (forecasts
    derived from various techniques: long term time periods, basic
    advances and declines, 3P-DH and counts from the middle section) have
    to fit together smoothly. This requirement makes the entire Lindsay
    method much more effective than any one of its techniques used in
    isolation.

    In this instance we know that Lindsay's other methods predict a bull
    market top for the second half of 2005 and a bear market low late in
    2006. Moreover, counting 15 years three months from the March 1994
    low brings us to June 2009 as a likely bull market top. Now we can
    attempt to count from 2004's middle section in the Dow.
    Lindsay's "point E" for this decending middle section is June 25,
    2004 in our interpretation. The first consideration is that the time
    from this point E to the bull market top should equal the time from
    the bull market top to the next bear market low. At the moment our
    best estimate for this low comes from the 12 year 10 month time
    interval and is December 1, 2006. This is a little more than 29
    months from point E and if the count from the middle section were to
    work exactly this would imply a bull market top 14 ½ months after
    June 25, 2004, i.e. September 10, 2005.

    Moroever, the duration of the subsequent bull market, in Lindsay's
    theory of the middle section, should equal the time from point E to
    the bear market low. Our current estimate for this time interval
    (again based on the 12 year 10 month period) is 29 months and thus we
    would expect a bull market top in May 2009, almost exactly coincident
    with the implication of the 15 year 3 month period from low to high.

    Let's now summarize the deductions we have drawn from Lindsay's
    timing methods. First, 2005 should be a generally bullish year. The
    bull market top could come as early as July 19, 2005 (3P-DH) or as
    late as January 31, 2006 (15 year 3 month period). Our best guess is
    that in any case the market will trade essentially sideways after
    July 19, 2005 but that no really bad drop will occur until 2006
    begins.

    A bear market should be expected for 2006 with a low coming late in
    the year. The years 2007 and 2008 are expected to be bullish with a
    bull market top in 2009.

    Where might the S&P stand at these highs and lows? Here Lindsay's
    timing methods are silent but we can make some deductions based on
    historical averages.

    The 2000-2002 bear market dropped the S&P 50%. The last bear market
    of comparable magnitude was the 1973-1974 bear market. The
    subsequent 1974-1976 bull market sent prices up 77%. A comparable
    advance from the 2002 low of 768 predicts a 2005 top at 1350. The
    1976-78 bear market dropped prices 28%. A similar drop from a 2005
    top at 1350 would give a low in 2006 around 980. This should be
    compared with the 958 forecast for that low derived from the 3P-DH
    formation. The 1978-1980 bull market moved the S&P up to 225% of its
    1974 low. A repeat performance for the 2007-2009 bull market would
    predict a top for the S&P in 2009 at 1730.

    For those interested in learning more about Lindsay's methods we
    suggest the booklet "Selected Articles by the late George Lindsay"
    which is published by Investors Intelligence in New Rochelle, New
    York.

    Carl Futia

    Comment


    • A good attitude for futures trading is one filled with a healthy curiosity about the future, always eager and interested to see what will happen next.
      A futures trader should approach each new trading day with the healthy curiosity of a passionate observer.

      A trader needs to be like a researcher in an unexplored forest studying a newly discovered wild animal. Eager to learn, searching for the truth, curious as to what will happen next, intent on observing habits and patterns, looking without preconceived opinions or fear.

      The primary motive is to observe, learn, and then act intelligently.

      A good attitude for trading is one free of excessive fear.

      No fear because the trader has made the effort to possess the trading intelligence and decision making capacity necessary to handle whatever the future brings.

      In the futures markets there is no need to be afraid. These markets are not random; they are flowing. Their pasts, presents and futures are related. There is an observable flow from past to present; and this flow is a reasonably reliable indicator of the future. Occasionally there will be major surprises, but that is the nature of the future. As it is not yet made; it is by nature unknown. Which brings me to methods of intelligently guessing the future. One aspect of cycles work is how people think. They think one of two ways, they (the cycles) should be exact or they should give a probability of future turning points. This brings me to this analogy from this book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books

      "Probability versus Statistics
      Probability and statistics are related areas of mathematics which concern themselves with analyzing the relative frequency of events. Still, there are fundamental differences in the way they see the world:



      Probability deals with predicting the likelihood of future events, while statistics involves the analysis of the frequency of past events.

      Probability is primarily a theoretical branch of mathematics, which studies the consequences of mathematical definitions. Statistics is primarily an applied branch of mathematics, which tries to make sense of observations in the real world.

      Both subjects are important, relevant, and useful. But they are different, and understanding the distinction is crucial in properly interpreting the relevance of mathematical evidence. Many a gambler has gone to a cold and lonely grave for failing to make the proper distinction between probability and statistics.

      This distinction will perhaps become clearer if we trace the thought process of a mathematician encountering her first craps game:



      If this mathematician were a probabilist, she would see the dice and think ``Six-sided dice? Presumably each face of the dice is equally likely to land face up. Now assuming that each face comes up with probability 1/6, I can figure out what my chances of crapping out are.''

      If instead a statistician wandered by, she would see the dice and think ``Those dice may look OK, but how do I know that they are not loaded? I'll watch a while, and keep track of how often each number comes up. Then I can decide if my observations are consistent with the assumption of equal-probability faces. Once I'm confident enough that the dice are fair, I'll call a probabilist to tell me how to play.''

      In summary, probability theory enables us to find the consequences of a given ideal world, while statistical theory enables us to to measure the extent to which our world is ideal. "

      Friday I had the chance to talk to a couple of fundimentally based traders (isn't that an oxymoron?) who trade based on econo numbers, company numbers and givens like quarter end mark up. They all KNEW that the year end would be marked up but I disagreed. Cycle analysis tells a different story, we live in a deterministic world. Einstein knew this but died before he could prove it. Below is Fridays trading with ES on one side and the cash index on the other. I always update the model when there is a gap in the cash index so the first bar is the update bar.
      Attached Files

      Comment


      • There is another possibility imho....a top in jan/february 2005 followed by a substantial decline in the months ahead....

        From an Elliott perspective the wave 5, could be completed...if the count it's correct now it could start an ABC corrective of all the bear market rally started from the oct 2002 lows..

        My view is:

        - top jan/feb (ABSOLUTE TOP) (1220/1260)
        - down march june (1120-1100)
        - up july mid september (lower high) (1150-1160)
        - down oct - jan 2006 (1000-980) inverse seasonal cycle

        the chart below is also interesting....

        fib
        Attached Files
        Last edited by fib0618; 01-02-2005, 03:35 AM.

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        • MY LONG TERM OUTLOOK.....
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          • We will see what the future bring won't we

            I'll tell you a story. Back in the day I used Elliot wave almost exclusively. Then one day I heard from a contact of mine (Andrew Lo) about this guy who had been using mathematical models to make money in the stock and futures markets. This guy was James Simons, and I had the chance to meet him. Suddenly my whole approach to trading changed. Here I was backtesting systems to day trade with but when it came to forecast with Elliot wave I couldn't reliably forecast without puting in some kind of assumptions, or the possibilities were too many, either way Elliot wave was nothing compared to what the proper use of science could do (as a footnote, please don't include Sornette in this "proper use of science" debate , all the quants I know, including myself, knew he was going to be wrong. One difference, he didn't know the markets plain and simple. Trade and make a living from trading makes you understand and work that much harder.) . Below is one model I saw at the time, on top was the low in 1998 forecasted (blue is the forecast) and the updated one @ the July 2002 low. This can be shrunk down with great accuracy intraday, down to 1 minute time frames. I never show it here because it's not an Esignal product and never will be. Ideas I would willingly share to anyone skilled enough to program it but the actual stuff, no it's too valuable to me and to be honest most don't deserve it, they are too lazy.
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            • Very interesting time coming up.
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              • Seasonality at it's best. From http://www.sentimentrader.com/ Sunday morning January 2 2005 "Over the past few weeks, I have been harping on the fact that the market simply does not show large declines during the last 10 trading days of December. I have also shown that the indexes, particularly the Nasdaq 100, very often show a swift, steep decline during the month of January. We have one more day of what has traditionally been a strong time of year, but after that the market has to deal with its issues…no more seasonality to bail it out. That is why we are modestly short in the model portfolio, and looking to increase that position if we see a day or two of gains to kick off the new year." I'll post some interesting seasonal charts another time.

                If you have a subscription to here http://www.chartsedge.com/ you got the top charts below, on the right is what was sent and on the left is the inverted. I've been called stupid before (actually a daily basis) for saying it's OK for cyclical models to invert and will say it again, I still see pure genius. Below that is the updated 30 minute XT model, when time is up price will change. Lets see how the rest of the week goes.
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                • Friday or next Monday seems to be a short term low. The white model is a seasonality model, nice to see the cycles agree with seasonality.
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                  • Long 100 @ 1184.0, maybe get my head handed to me so not advice.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by theplumber
                      Long 100 @ 1184.0, maybe get my head handed to me so not advice.
                      Nothing important, I closed the long @ 86. I "think" I'll get a better price today.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by theplumber
                        Nothing important, I closed the long @ 86. I "think" I'll get a better price today.
                        That's what I get for "thinking". Looks like buy mode. I would watch the advancing volume but the McC Osc. says shorts are covering, problem is where are the real buyers? This will show up in the advancing volume when it comes.
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                        • Read too many posts on other message boards about how you can't "predict" the next day's market. You either have someone saying it's not possible or someone else who thinks they know it all trying to degrade everything but "his model". I use neural nets with esoteric variables with great success as well as eigenfunctions and wavelets. Below was my forecast using eigenfunction. Just some of the tools that CAN model the markets (as well as cycles) if you open your mind to possibilities and curiousity.
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                          • Bradley's swingtable 2005

                            .......
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                            • Bradley chart

                              Here is a chart of the Bradley turns
                              http://www.amanita.at/images/bradley/bradley2005.gif

                              Comment


                              • Great Minds...

                                I am thinking the exact same thing pretty much - I have January 27th as my next critical turn date.

                                I also have it pegged as an important low.

                                Price wise, I am looking at these key levels for ES: 1172.50, 1157.50, 1140.50, 1121.50, 1100.00

                                Well gutter my buff an call me a biscuit!



                                KingCAMBO
                                "He who takes the tide, takes all..."

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